00:14:04 Nic Kröger: Please feel free to post any questions you have in the chat; I will be sure to monitor it and compile them. 00:14:59 Jessica Dirsmith: https://www.polleverywhere.com/multiple_choice_polls/pFVh9TmyFjTiMuxVo6Lp3 00:15:29 Krista Bussone (she/her): It said it was unavailable 00:18:41 kpusey: yes! 00:18:47 Jaimie Rennie: Absolutely! 00:20:07 Krista Bussone (she/her): Yes 00:20:12 Titina Brown: Absolutely! 00:22:59 Jessica Dirsmith: https://PollEv.com/multiple_choice_polls/Tsjl07cL8dDsnvxbz0xOO/respond 00:23:55 Mark Omiatek: supervisor consult + tool for systematic decision-making 00:24:07 Duane Conrad: poll full 00:45:27 Jaimie Rennie: That’s my favorite meme 01:00:09 Janice Decker: Will the handout for this presentation be available? Much needed and great information. Making notes to share with school teams. I'm working on such an evaluation as I'm watching this. 01:01:09 Mark Omiatek: I would also really like a copy of the slide-deck please: maomiatek@iu12.org! 01:02:02 Adam Ward: I would also like a copy of the slides if possible! award@cvsd.net 01:02:11 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: ASPP Board Member here - if the presenters wish to share their slides, I will post to the website in the conference section! 01:02:40 Mark Omiatek: Thank you! 01:03:05 Janice Decker: Thank you! 01:05:31 Danielle M Taylor: LOL 01:05:55 Kristina Strohm: Laughter is great medicine : ) 01:06:37 Jessica Dirsmith: Yes-we will share after the presentation 🙂 01:08:13 Krista Bussone (she/her): The third characteristic is hardest for me, because kids who are ADHD or autistic may have inappropriate behaviors/feelings under "normal" circumstances that have nothing to do with ED 01:17:22 Tom Barnes: If a student gets past the first four stages of analysis but does not pass #5 (needs special education), do you check the second box on the ER? (Has a disability but does not need special education?) In other words, under IDEA, doesn't a student need to need special education in order to have a "disability"? 01:18:35 Janice Decker: If a student does not get past #5, could another disability category be considered? 01:18:52 Holly’s iPhone: What do you think about the Emotional Disturbance Qualification Composites in the BASC-3? Why have they disappeared from Q-Global again this week? 01:19:49 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: Janice - I would think that if the team has evidence to suspect another category, then yes. 01:20:25 Emily Ross: Great question, Tom! I’m curious about that, too. 01:21:29 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: Agreed with asking that Tom. I really hesitate to use that option! 01:23:10 Tom Barnes: Trying to figure out why that #$%#$% box is there. hehe I doubt there's any case that went against a school psych because they checked the wrong box but reached the right conclusion! 01:24:30 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: Well, I just worry it sets up the district for risk if the conclusion is that there is an IDEA disability, but no need for special ed, but like you said, to have an IDEA disability you have to have a need. There is no emoji for this haha. 01:25:11 Tom Barnes: I hear ya! 01:28:11 Brittany Murray: I don't ever use that second option due to basically the same sentiments as what Tom expressed in his initial question. It's like the two things can't really go together with that second option. A few years back I had an attorney say to me, "If you're recognizing that a student has a disability, but not recognizing that they need specially designed instruction - then how are you recognizing that they have a disability?" And that has stuck with me ever since. 01:29:33 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: That's my logic, too, Brittany. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise but I'm not sure what that would take. 01:29:38 Krista Bussone (she/her): Brittany - 504? 01:29:57 Shannon Dressler: Yes, Krista. I check that box when I have a student who doesn’t need special education but does need accommodations. 01:30:07 Shannon Dressler: Via a 504 01:30:35 Katherine Palladino: Yes I use box 2 for 504 kids who have a disability but may not require SPED due to lack of needs 01:31:02 Brittany Murray: That same attorney advised me not to do that. 01:31:06 Janice Decker: I think that check box is very vague. Is it referring to a Chapter 14 disability only? I also never use that check box. 01:31:14 Shannon Dressler: Or when I’m exiting kids from special education but they still consistently use their extended time accommodation. 01:31:15 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: yeah but.... an IDEA evaluation is for IDEA disabilities. 504s are for protected handicapped students (I hate that language but that's PA CODE Chapter 15 language) 01:31:50 Janice Decker: Exactly, Dr. Bennyhoff! 01:32:13 Tom Barnes: I was just typing the same thing, Caitlin! So... Why is the box there? Very strange... 01:33:00 Krista Bussone (she/her): But if you have a child who has a disability, it doesn't always follow they need specially designed instruction - sometimes they just need accommodations. This goes back to overidentification and the high stakes. Districts I have worked in have allowed an IDEA eval to help determine if a 504 should be explored. 01:33:06 Krista Bussone (she/her): Range of services. 01:33:13 Tom Barnes: The annotated form on PATTAN site seems to imply 1st prong - second prong use of the boxes. 01:34:25 Katherine Palladino: Krista, same. Some districts require to do a full “IDEA” initial eval to determine 504 OR Sped. Also, the kids who get exited from SPED but need to step down to a 504 due to continued need for accommodations 01:35:38 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: You can recommend consideration for 504 eligibility in an IDEA ER. I have issues with requiring it Katherine but I feel guilty for hijacking the chat box haha. 01:37:34 Katherine Palladino: Haha I don’t disagree with you! Also don’t disagree with Box 2 being unnecessary. 01:37:54 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: We need a roundtable just to discuss Box #2 haha 01:38:18 Shannon Dressler: Presentation topic for next year! 😂 01:38:43 Tom Barnes: Seems like it should be a square table... 01:38:45 Katherine Palladino: Great idea! “To box 2 or not to Box 2…” 01:39:05 Brittany Murray: LOL @ Tom 01:39:08 Shannon Dressler: “Box 2, yay or nay” 01:39:11 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: Noted! Maybe we can invite Andy Faust - he's an animated local (to me - Lancaster, Berks) solicitor. Could be fun. 01:39:15 Dr. Caitlin Bennyhoff: To check or not to check 01:39:40 Nic Kröger: The Act 48 Code for this session is: 868 8921 4428 01:39:50 Tom Barnes: Bring Carol Obermann to fight with Andy Faust That will be fun. 01:40:23 Katherine Palladino: “When the roundtable turns square: To check or not to check Box 2” 01:40:35 Krista Bussone (she/her): 😂 01:40:44 Tom Barnes: I'm out for a run.... let me know if you solve it! 01:40:55 Krista Bussone (she/her): I still would like some clarity regarding Characteristic 3 and ADHD/ASD rule out 01:41:37 Krista Bussone (she/her): I need to switch to my phone so I can do childcare pick up, see you in 15 01:42:40 Krista Bussone (she/her): I know some disability advocates who would say it would be ableist to assume a person with a disability needs special ed. There is no answer! 01:48:32 Stacy Leathery: Do we stay on this link or is there another one for the next session? 01:51:16 Shannon Dressler: Same link! 01:53:18 rheatonhall: My 2 cents from a legal perspective is that whether to check box 2 of course depends on the situation. I'm certainly not afraid to advise to check the box if the child does not require SDI. If you check they have a disability but do not require SDI, then you should be doing some follow up for child find - at least that is my opinion. 01:56:30 Kate Altman: Was an Act 48 attendance passcode shared at the end of the first session? I think I missed it! 01:56:32 Marcy Rickrode: Can you share link to. Handouts? 01:57:16 Nic Kröger: The Act 48 Code for this session is: 868 8921 4428 01:57:50 Kate Altman: Thank you! I promise I was paying attention ;) Great presentation! 01:59:58 Tom Barnes: But they don't have a disability because they don't need special education? 02:00:15 Marcy Rickrode: I wasn’t in the first session. Could someone repost the link to the handouts if there are any? 02:01:29 kpusey: Confusion of disability category vs. DSM diangosis 02:02:05 Titina Brown: I love your co-facilitator! 02:12:36 Meredith: A lot! 02:12:37 Jaimie Rennie: Yep!!! 02:12:38 Katherine Palladino: yep 02:13:07 Meredith: how does attendance fit in? 02:13:51 Adam Ward: What if a child is enrolled in cyber school and the parent is reporting behavioral issues? 02:14:12 Marcy Rickrode: School refusal? Due to mental health issues but perfect behavior in school. 02:15:32 Adam Ward: Thank you!!! 02:17:50 Stacy Leathery: . 02:18:53 Nic Kröger: We are blocked off until 4:15 I believe 02:19:25 Tom Barnes: 415... 02:26:35 rheatonhall: Confusion of disability category vs. DSM diagnosis - Great question. Hearing Officers and Judges seem to be influenced in decisions by the outside diagnosis but still recognize the difference in the criteria for diagnosing under DSM and identification under IDEA. I would explain the difference in the evaluation. 02:32:29 Stacy Leathery: Advice on completing an FBA when student is only receiving virtual instruction? 02:36:49 Meredith: can you elaborate here on the concept of student's perception of this characteristic as a consideration? 02:44:54 Danielle M Taylor: this is funny :) 02:56:14 Danielle M Taylor: I am an intern now and have not completed a virtual FBA…yet 02:56:37 Marissa Reed: We were told by our solicitor to do an FBA once the student returned to a school building. 02:57:16 Jaimie Rennie: I have not completed a virtual FBA but I have had teachers submit observational data to me that was collected over virtual learning and she described many “silent fights” (because the child was muted) between the parent and child. 03:03:11 Tom Barnes: We should revive the box discussion to make it to 4:15... ;) 03:05:32 Sabrina: As part of the process, how do you feel about the EDDT?1 03:06:03 Sabrina: That’s it 03:07:44 Sabrina: Of course, I meant more as a part of the eval :) 03:08:12 Sabrina: Thanks! 03:08:39 Janice Decker: I currently have a school team who wants to pre-meet without parent. I know that is not correct. Ideas to convince? 03:09:18 Meredith: Can you elaborate on meeting criteria 3 - with regard to student's perception of relationships with teachers and peers vs. data collected through observations? 03:10:08 Tom Barnes: Can you have autism AND emotional disturbance? "ii. Autism does not apply if a child’s educational performance is adversely affected primarily because the child has an emotional disturbance, as defined in paragraph (c)(4) of this section." 03:11:24 Janice Decker: Thank you! 03:14:08 Kristina Strohm: I would like to know what you recommend as well if you are reaching out about the ED and ASD question please 03:14:38 Tom Barnes: Thanks! 03:15:07 Meredith: Thanks Nik 03:15:20 Krista Bussone: Thanks, I think it definitely speaks to the outdated/vagueness of the ED definition 03:21:18 Stacy Leathery: Thanks! 03:22:53 Tom Barnes: 🙂 03:24:14 Nic Kröger: The Act 48 Code for this session is: 868 8921 4428 If you need support: Dr. Lillenstein's Email: dlillenstein@hershey.k12.pa.us Dr. Lillenstein's Cell: (717) 443-2361 Dr. Bennyhoff's Email: caitlin_bennyhoff@elanco.org Dr. Bennyhoff Cell: (570) 239-4686 Nic Kroger’s Email: nkroger@hershey.k12.pa.us Nic Kroger’s Cell: (724) 732-1670 03:24:33 Nic Kröger: The Act 48 Code for this session is: 868 8921 4428 03:25:22 Tom Barnes: We can share a cell with the psychs that checked the second box... 03:25:49 Sofia Pham: The presentation was very helpful! 03:25:50 Kate Altman: Thank you! 03:25:51 Tom Barnes: Thanks! 03:25:52 Meghan Garrett: Just making sure that the code is the same for 1st and 2nd session. 03:25:53 Kristina Strohm: Thank you for a great engaging session 03:25:53 Jaimie Rennie: Thank you!! 03:25:54 Meghan Garrett: And thank you! 03:25:57 Brittany Murray: Thank you! 03:25:57 Rebecca Kirby: This is a great presentation!! 03:25:58 Meredith: Thank you both! This was great! 03:26:00 Rebecca Kirby: Thank you!! 03:26:02 Katherine Palladino: Thanks! 03:26:09 Courtney: This was awesome. Thanks! 03:26:21 Nic Kröger: The Act 48 Code for this session is: 868 8921 4428 03:26:26 Janice Decker: Thank you. Wonderful presentation!